Jul 05 2009
Christian Mullah’s Invade the Blogosphere
Recently there has seen a rash of religious posting. I have noticed that there are not a few who find this objectionable. Personally, I feel like they are inane and irrelevant, sometimes I play with them sometimes I just laugh at them. But it is interesting that we see people using religious beliefs to make arguments about politics. It appears there is a considerable number of people in this country who would like to see the US become a Theocracy. And I do wonder if to some extent the US is a Theocracy, I can’t recall any President being elected who didn’t believe in Jesus. Some more extreme in their beliefs than others but all claim to be xtian.
Can religion be kept out of politics? I’m not so sure. The vast majority of the world has a deity. Now if these people actually believe that their god is real then I suspect they feel it is incumbent on them to attempt to make their world and their respective governments in a fashion that is pleasing to their god.
Being a dyed in the wool atheist, this trend is a little disturbing to me. I feel very much surrounded by people with beliefs that seem to me to be one step away from schizophrenia. I mean these people have invisible friends that they talk to and many feel their invisible friend answers them. They believe in disembodied spirits, the devil, miracles and Armageddon. These beliefs are irrational and no one can achieve national office with out claiming acceptance of the basic Christian tenants or at least not in my life time so far. I guess I would be less disturbed about what I consider wide spread irrationality if people had the good sense to keep it to themselves, but when people feel no shame about espousing ideas that are entirely irrational, it makes me wonder, just how far can this irrationality go, and then I look at the state of the world and US actions in the world and I get some idea how far it can go.
It’s about time for humanity to grow up and realize that religion is an evolutionary phenomenon and that god stories are culturally based stories and that none of the god stories are real but rather they are mans feeble attempt to deal with a mysterious universe, the complexity of consciousness and fear of mortality. Just the idea of god is so HUGE that for a human to attempt to explain god is amazingly arrogant and ignorant. But that’s a funny thing about ignorance it is usually accompanied by arrogance.
you can not force your beliefs on others - many believe because they choose to belief - because they have opened up their eyes, their ears and their hearts and have felt the presence and protection of God. I believe and I do not feel it is an irrational belief. The way you spoke in this post I can only feel sorry for you to have to stoop to calling anyone who does not believe as you believe irrational, arrogant (what you just demonstrated with your words) and ignorant (I think the ignorant got to me the most).
Truth is religion is all around you and their are more who believe in some form of god than who do not believe so you, being an atheist, are in the minority and in essence you have spoken out of turn about the majority so maybe you should check yourself and the demon inside of you that refuses to allow you to believe. :o}
Peace and Understanding to you (try going to a quiet place and reading the words that were relevent in the days of Jesus and are still relevent today and note as you read that many of the laws discussed in the Bible are what our government is built on - there may be a seperation of church and state in theory but in reality not so true.
Truth2u- Organized religion is a scurge on this planet and to humanity. Which god is real? yours? How about the 5 billion +people that believe in something other then Christanity? Are they all wrong? Co existence by its nature allows you the right to believe in any fair tale you want but you are ignorant to the facts around you. The Universe has billions and billions of suns and planets and to express your belief that you know how this system works by some book written to control the masses is ignorant and its defense arrogant. You my misguided sole might find some inner peace by adopting a practice of meditation and reflection. Its not too late to free your mind.
Imagine no regilion, no heaven…above us only sky. The answer rests inside each of us to open our mind and realize that we get 70-80 years on this planet (if we’re lucky). Smell the Plumeria, enjoy the every joy of being alive because when you’re dead, it’s over. period end of story. Yor ashes will form the fertilizer for the next living being.
truth2u
You say “you can not force your beliefs on others” um stay calm I dont know what you identify as being forced but there is no coersion happening. Deep breath.
You say “many believe because they choose to belief” choosing to believe? Does that mean making a decision not based on fact?
Then “have felt the presence and protection of God.” yes sir these are called the “warm fuzzy’s” they can be reproduced in a clinical setting and in the absence of a god story.
As for feeling sorry for me, do so at your leisure. And I am well aware of the pervasive belief in god, I think I pointed that out in the post so I really gain nothing by you restating to me what I already said.
As for the demon inside me ROFLMFAO. Thats my point you are arrogant you have decided since I dont believe the way you do that the reason is some mysterious being that has inhabited my body. When I say religious beliefs are ignorant and arrogant that can be shown by the lack of available information about god and the adamance with which people believe. I have yet to be shown anything that can count as evidence of god. Belief in the absense of evidence is called faith, I call faith irrational. Because reason is the measure for rationality. Revealed truth is hogwash, everyone has different revelations none are verifiable and many contridict each other. I wouldn’t sugest you have a demon but more of a mind virus http://www.bidstrup.com/virus.htm. A frame work of ideas that prevent you from looking rationally at the things you believe about god. This idea is not based on any achient text it is based on the scientific method. And it passes the test of reason. If you want to believe in a 900yo man who built a boat and captured and placed every animal on earth upon the boat, that is surely your perogitive but there are some obvious problems with the story that make believing it an act of irrationality.
Look I use to be a xtian, and I felt the presence of god (at least I thought I did) then I started to understand that I could produce that feeling independant of any religious story and that it was part of consciousness. Understand that god is not something that anyone has special information about. When people tell you they know about god they are by deffinition being arrogant, they cant even demonstrait the existance of god yet they want to tell others how to live based on their interpretation of some anchient text. And most dont even bother to study the history of the writers of the text and all to frequently have no real grasp of the context in which the text was writen. We have pebble brains brah, we dont KNOW anything about god. Believe whatever you want but when you say you “KNOW” you are simply full of shit. The number of believers does nothing to validate the truth of the belief. “In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.”
— Galileo Galilei
Touché KonaD
If it’s all right with everyone-I would like to get back to dsent’s original argument. Prior to this influx of the Christian Right (and that is what you are) we never discussed the existence or non-existence of any god. The reason for this: THIS IS A POLITICAL BLOG SITE! Personally; I find these constant diatribes about such irrelevant topics such as inconsistencies in the Bible to be an affront to me. Just as I am entitled to not believe; you are entitled to believe. The difference lies in the fact that I don’t dedicate entire posts to my reasons for not believing. The reason being: THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS WEB SITE! I am not going to get into the reasons why I find the majority, if not all, of your assertions to be absurd. I’ll let dsent be the tailback on that one; he can carry the ball with the best of them. I will say this; I attended Catholic schools for 13 years and I’ve had my fill of unprovable bullshit. Let’s all just stick to politics and if you can’t; find another site-maybe one dedicated to religion.
tailback,
Agreed this is not the venue for that subject, I often play with these zelots but simply because I enjoy debate. But unfortunatelly xtian fundamentalists or any fundamentalist for that matter dont give good debate. There is a religion section on today.com I would think it would be more appropriate for them to take their preaching to that area of the site. But if they stick around they might just get verbally roughed up. Maybe they will learn that the reason their are topic headdings is so that they can post appropriatelly rather than try and bring their BS to a venue where its not wanted.
I pretty much don’t object with anyone having his or her own religious views or non-views. What I do object to is someone imposing their religion on others, especially in politics. That’s why the religious right drive me crazy! What an oxy-moron. Whenever I try to picture justifying the arguments they give I can only think of one thing.
The religious right is neither.
skwguitar,
Did I mention I’m glad your back brother? I am.
I also have no problem with people believing whatever seem correct to them. I have never experienced anyone imposing their views on me because I am happy to discuss anyones view. I have never failed to invite the J. Witnesses in to my home when they come around, I have also never faild to have them tell me they need to be going. But I do respect tailbacks sensibilities that this is a political forum not a religious one. But I am also stuck with the sense that religion is personal politics. Therefore I am also tollerant of the “neither” posting their drivle in politics. I think they are terribly confused and afraid so I do feel a modicum of compassion for them .
I’m jumping into this one a bit late, but I do think that putting an end to religious fundamentalism is somewhat integral to our survival as a species. How does one reason with people who take an book of mythology from the bronze age which has been translated and re-translated to fit the various political agendas of the ruling classes over the course of centuries, and they not only take it literally but expect to govern based on that literal interpretation? Where does the line between reasonable faith and batshit insanity lie? Moderate religion is something I am happy to agree to disagree with. But this fundy bullshit is a goddamn plague that needs to be wiped the fuck off the planet already! And I certainly don’t want to single out fundy xtians here. The fundy Muslims have done a brilliant job of demonstrating the ugly face of theocracy.
http://obamacomics.today.com
sorry, but the original founders, with the exception of Thomas Paine, were theists and mentioned god as a basis for the meaning of the country. Thomas Jefferson had a Koran only to remind him of how evil and dangerous Islam was.
vraj, I think you need to figure out what “theist” means. It’s not anything even close to resembling a theocrat.
http://obamacomics.today.com
I agree that religion and politics are of separate ilk.
I did want to add this though… Most of my life was spent with me being so proud to declare ‘I am an Atheist’… Before I continue, I wish to make it clear I am only sharing, I do not wish to change anyones opinion… I couldn’t anyway, no proof of anything here…
There came a point in my mid forties where I realized that things in my life weren’t falling together the way they should given the extreme diligence I had put in. At that age the notion entered my head that I must convert to Godly beliefs. I have, and honestly not a darn thing has changed for the better.
I can no longer honestly say that I am an Atheist though - Don’t ask me why. I look around and I see that at the age I was when I began to believe, this sort of turnaround is common. So now I no longer have the joy of shocking people by declaring Atheism, and I don’t even garner the rewards that many Christians say are offered them… Yet an innate message tells me I must hold on… Since I have turned ‘Christian’ I have lost the last of my health and the ability to work, even though I didn’t think I was close to that point.. WTF?
So the bottom line here is… Read it, and you figure it out, cos I can’t!
Still keep religion out of my politics please… lol!
Jasson,
Spot on brother.
Vraj,
I don’t really concern myself with what the founders believed about god, many were actually diests, but their beliefs are not consiquensial to me, its more than 200yrs later we have good science now and maybe its time to grow a bit and leave some things behind.
Judy,
Just a quick book recomendation “the God Dillusion” by Richard Dawkins. My atheisim has nothing to do with shock value, religious stories just dont make sense to me, evolution on the other hand makes fantastic sense.
the demon was the one calling me (and people who believe) arrogant ignorant and whatever else you called out it had nothing to do with my belief that saw the demon in you it was your words that made me know you are guided by other things - hateful things. I did not have to stoop to name calling to get my point across - you are the only one who is truly showing arrogance - but are too blind to see it - oh well - I rest my case and I will continue to believe - as is my choice.
dsent, you are a legend in your own mind, good for you. I did not say that I had been Atheist only to shock, I said it made me happy that at times it did. I don’t feel I need your approval on anything. The religious stories mean nothing to me either. I just question why just about everyone I know when they hit their 40’s felt it in their best interests to believe… Not just for appearance sake or to fit in either; it seems innate.
truth2u, if you are talking to me at all, I cannot recognize from your nonsense. Demons and sh*t. Take that cr*p somewhere else. If you do speak to me, don’t talk demons, that is empty minded bull. Sounds like you have been evangelizing way too long.
Judy,
I am no kind of legend even in my own mind, my comment was based on specific statements you made.
“Most of my life was spent with me being so proud to declare ‘I am an Atheist’…So now I no longer have the joy of shocking people by declaring Atheism”. Hey I dont feel any pride about my absence of belief in god. As for the book I simply found it excellent and thought you might enjoy it. And truth2u is talking to me he wasn’t saying you have a demon but that I do. And by all means beleive whatever you see fit. Im not vested in what you believe.
Respect
truth,
In the thread you are refering to you might notice that Justin called me ignorant. I dont believe I called anyone ignorant I more than likley sugested his beliefs are ignorant. As for arrogance and “whatever else” Hey when people claim to “know” about god, I call that arrogant, they can say they believe, they can tell me it seems to them or they think, but when someone says they “KNOW” about god, that is arrogant. I respect individuals but the ideas and beliefs they have must stand or fall on their merrits. And what can I say to believe the world is 6000 yrs old is an ignorant belief. So if I offended you I am sorry, however, for you to declare that I have a demon in me is pretty self-righteous, not only do you not know me you dont KNOW that demons even exist. That you took offence to my words in no way justifies the suggestion that I am possessed, thats just silly.
::::::group hugz:::::: Sounds lame I know but so much crap going on in the world right now that I just couldn’t bear to add….. Cheers.
Hugz judy in slightly inappropriage way.